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#4633329 Jul 11, 2011 at 10:58 AM
Ally
74 Posts
#4633226 Giniluv wrote:

German actually.



Thanks for the correction.

Regarding the tone of the rest of your response, I'm at a loss for words, so I will skip repeating myself and bow out of the discussion.



"Never tell me the odds!"
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#4633344 Jul 11, 2011 at 11:00 AM
Member
38 Posts
Also I would like to ask, I know our Vent server is paid for by Snorri, and when this second raid group starts up, just wanna know if we can get a channel for it or if I should ask an alliance for vent or just buy one for this purpose?

I'm happy to chip in for costs.

SM weaponsmith. Alts Ginielle 65 LM/SM jeweler and cook, Ginidori 65 Champ/SM tailor, Giniella 54 Warden/SM metalsmith, and a SM farmer living in Hobbiton happily at lvl 12.
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#4633352 Jul 11, 2011 at 11:03 AM
Member
38 Posts
#4633329 Curufindir wrote:

#4633226 Giniluv wrote:

German actually.



Thanks for the correction.

Regarding the tone of the rest of your response, I'm at a loss for words, so I will skip repeating myself and bow out of the discussion.


Tone? I am being amiable. How one gets a tone from text is beyond me.

I have been nothing but helpful and giving towards this kin.

SM weaponsmith. Alts Ginielle 65 LM/SM jeweler and cook, Ginidori 65 Champ/SM tailor, Giniella 54 Warden/SM metalsmith, and a SM farmer living in Hobbiton happily at lvl 12.
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#4633513 Jul 11, 2011 at 11:37 AM
Member
138 Posts
#4633226 Giniluv wrote:


German actually. And I did not paste that to say anything at all about the difficulty of OD, but merely to show that ya don't NEED that 'perfect' raid makeup to get it done.



Actually I believe that the people six manning OD wings shows that they worked together flawlessly. They know what each other is going to do in the next 5 minutes. That group of people have probably been playing together for years.

While im not saying you "need" to have the perfect raid makeup, you do need to know one another on some sort of basis before you can simply walk into a raid and expect to complete what another group of people have been doing for the past few months.
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#4633901 Jul 11, 2011 at 01:09 PM · Edited over 6 years ago
Member
100 Posts
Wow! First, it's nice to see that Giniluv is getting where I'm coming from, and commenting the reasons why I started this thread more eloquently (and diplomatically) than I can.

Second Curufindir, your opinion is ALWAYS welcomed here. So far, your criticism has never been less then constructive. I admit this topic is a rather sensitive one, (for both sides) and it is easy to sound passionate while voicing one's opinions. After reading the posts, I don't think Giniluv sounded heated, nor intended on being overly critical. If you have comments on the topic, please by all means share them. We are all trying to find the most effective solution here.

Speaking of which, I started this thread to find a solution. I kind of feel that this "problem" was the one that everyone knew about, but did not want to formally discuss. Everyone put it aside, to be dealt with later. After finding out informally that more than "just a few" kin members felt the same way, I realized that the issue should be brought up. My intention was not to force my way into the OD raid, just have the kin acknowledge that the way things are currently set up, are causing a bit of a resentment, that can possibly fester into having good people leave the kin. Points have been made on why it is ideal to have the same people running the raid.(and they are good points too) However, it still doesn't change the problem that looks to get worse if left unchanged. I had came up with solutions and hoped that others would be inspired to come up with ideas too.

I've also asked for one step further. I understand the Mal's kin set up the OD raid from scratch. And I've been encouraged to start my own raid team. I don't think asking for experienced OD raid volunteers to help get this thing off the ground is over-reaching. It seems rather selfish to inflect, "Because we started from scratch, you should too" As a kin, I thought the overall interests were for the kin, not a select group of kin-members. So why not encourage more people instead of isolating? Of course I understand that Mal didn't intend to created a elitist group, but that is what it became! I want to try to go away from that (slowly) so that overall as a kin, we can grow.

I want to do this right. Not to set up to fail. Not only do I have to figure out a plan for regular raiding, but a plan to integrate both Mals and mine's. All of your opinions are welcome.
-Luvhandles 65 Hunter
-Cinnimon 75 RK
-Arrtful 75 Burg

-Mayor of Middle-Earth (it's a Foursquare thing)
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#4633993 Jul 11, 2011 at 01:29 PM · Edited over 6 years ago
Member
303 Posts
I think that by now all the varying opinions have been spoken and don't really warrent much more discussion. I am now locking this thread. Any further questions can be discussed in a new thread.

Thanks,
Malivek

Edit: stupid thing wont lock from my phone.. I will lock it later. Just pretend it is locked.
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#4634185 Jul 11, 2011 at 02:04 PM · Edited over 6 years ago
Member
366 Posts
I hope that we can end this thread on a more positive note. I had typed up a big long post, then thought OMG I wouldn't even want to read that! So here is attempt number 2.

1. OME is a casual/social kin. We are one of the largest on the server. We are NOT a small hardcore raiding kin.
2. We do have several raiding groups. One of which Gini and Speedstr you raid with. SO we are NOT keeping anyone from raiding.
3. THe OD kin raid was having difficulty with finding *anyone* interested in running it since realize in our kin. We were constantly LFFing in kin chat with no luck as we didn't have either enough sign ups or enough people show up. So a rather close knit group of people gave a *one last ditch attempt* at putting a static group together.
4. I put up a raid thread where people could respond with interest in raiding. I *think* 3 people replied.
5. We are not discouraging people from applying to raid in OD, a better way to accomplish this would be to run content with the raid leaders, let them get to learn how you play your class etc ( yes this is a fair expectation)
6. If you want a really long *verbal* history lesson in the evolution/success/failures of raiding in OME then I'll discuss it with you in vent some day * when I've had a drink or two! haha.


The purpose of the kin is to enhance the game play and fun for all that are in the kin. Raiding is such as small aspect of the game and the kin in general. Yet it takes up such a huge chunk of energy with disagreements and accusations of unfairness and eliteness. Seriously this isn't going to make things better. Raiding is HARD, it requires not only skill but in game funds to support the materials needed. RL time to commit to it, and then of course learning to work together as a team to beat the content. I've come to the conclusion that a static set of rotation is the best way to achieve this. I have put much time into OD and still haven't come out with a 1st age weapon ( yes I can be sad about that but I still have fun running OD) or enough tokens to even barter for the armour.

If you want an example of why swapping out players each week wouldn't work. Lets look at the twilight DN run, each week we have about maybe 4 or so new people come in. We haven't even beaten 3 bosses in one sitting with the exception of last week, and we are all at level 65 ( its a level 60 raid). That isn't a criticsim. WE are making progress, and I enjoy it...thanks to Brayce for setting them up! But OD is like 50 times harder! Lets learn to crawl before we walk. Lets get the twilight DN raid group set up so that we can advance that, and then perhaps at some point move to OD. If you really feel that you can't wait....well then heck give it a try! I just don't want people to get discouraged! There is no "A" pool or "B" pool of raiders. Experience is gained through raiding....but jumping right into the hardest raid probably isn't going to be the best idea.

As for vent, well we use vent for our DN raids...never been an issue so I'm curious as to why that was brought up. Snorri provides the vent sever for the kin, with much appreciation from myself. I have never heard it insinuated that anyone in the kin could NOT use it.... as for a special channel...well any will work. There was a "password" protected raid channel to prevent people from coming in and disturbing the raid/leader ( yes this was happening quite often) during a raid. If you feel the need to use this, then we can work something out.

I do appreciate both sides of the story but lets face it , * you can't please all the people all the time* and with raiding its been a constant merry go ride with revamping rules, trying different ways to roster and get people in. It was taking more time to actually nail down *how we were going to raid in the kin* that it took away from the enjoyment of *raiding in the kin*.

Lets avoid accusations and insinuations. If you see a problem, post a solution and we will be reasonable. Curufinder made some solid remarks with some *new eyes* as he is relatively new to OME ( even though I am a far superior LM hahahah) and I appreciate that outside look. We are NOT keeping anyone from raiding. We've tried and tried to muster up interest. Now we have from the looks of it 2 people ( speed and Gini) that are interested in raiding OD. My thoughts are the best way to have gotten rostered in would have been to run content other then raid with the raid leaders. They need to know how you play etc, its kinda like a *raid interview* if you will. Not sure this thread was the best way to go about it.


Well it looks like I failed to keep this post short....my apologies!


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